Celebrated chef Mathew Leong eats stress for breakfast

Transcript

[00:00:00] Mathew Leong: To succeed and to do something great, you need to have the focus, the discipline, and then you need to have consistency.

[00:00:08] Chong Seow Wei: Welcome to Crazy Smart Asia, the unexpected stories of Asia's disruptors. I'm your host, Chongxiao Wei. Every week, we talk with a young leader about the crazy smart approaches they're taking to achieve success, and the truths they uncover along the way.

[00:00:24] Chong Seow Wei: This week, we decided to change up where we recorded the episode, So not our usual studio setting, [00:00:30] but right in the heart of a bustling hotel lobby in downtown Singapore. And our guest is an extraordinary individual, whose culinary achievements surpass those of all his contemporaries. Matthew Leong is the executive chef at one of Norway's finest restaurants, the award winning Raynor in Stavanger.

[00:00:47] Chong Seow Wei: Ahead of his participation in the prestigious Bocuse d'Or finale this January in Lyon, France, The Singaporean chef shares with us. Why he's a big fan of hustle culture based values such as focus, [00:01:00] discipline, consistency, and competition, his dream of owning 20 restaurants one day, and why if you want to be the best, it's crucial to work for someone better than you.

[00:01:10] Chong Seow Wei: Here's our conversation.

[00:01:17] Chong Seow Wei: So let's get into your cooking career. So what did, what was the moment that kind of sparked your interest in cooking at the very first?

[00:01:25] Mathew Leong: So at the start, I was, uh, in secondary school back then doing a cooking contest. And, [00:01:30] uh, Chef Jimmy Chow was one of the jury that actually spotted me out, uh, in, in, in school.

[00:01:34] Mathew Leong: So I was like, you know, when you're 13 years old, 14 years old, you don't know what you're doing. So I just raised my hand and I participated in this competition and I actually won the first round. And then that sparks my career. And like, why not? You know, when you win something, you always want to do it more.

[00:01:49] Mathew Leong: No, that's, uh, that's how it started. And what

[00:01:51] Chong Seow Wei: was your experience at CharTech like?

[00:01:53] Mathew Leong: It was

[00:01:54] Chong Seow Wei: building your kind of your style or your approach to cooking.

[00:01:57] Mathew Leong: I mean, when you go to the culinary school, you learn a lot [00:02:00] of the basic fundamentals. Maybe you know the cut this way, but there's a proper French name to the specific product or produce or the way of the technique.

[00:02:09] Mathew Leong: So, you know, that helps me a lot. And, uh, and I really I love the whole journey of Shatec. The mentor has been supporting my, my competition career as well back then. So it was a, it was, I would highly recommend that the young chef had to go to a kind university.

[00:02:27] Chong Seow Wei: So what would you say is the [00:02:30] recommended path for someone who wants to be a chef like you?

[00:02:32] Chong Seow Wei: Whether successful in Singapore or even internationally, just as you have done.

[00:02:36] Mathew Leong: You always look up to somebody and, uh, and, uh, and chase for your, your dream, you know. But I always tell young chefs, I say, don't be like me, be better than me, you know. So this is something, uh, I would recommend that, you know, It's the mindset.

[00:02:52] Mathew Leong: It's the mindset. You know, if you can be, you need to work in the best restaurant, you know, if you want to reach the goal. Work in the best restaurant and [00:03:00] pull through the hardship for several years. Learn as much as possible and, uh, absorb like a sponge and one day you can create your own stuff and you can actually do excel in your own identity as a chef.

[00:03:12] Chong Seow Wei: Um, so always aim for the best, always work with the best in order to become the best, which is

[00:03:18] Mathew Leong: exactly

[00:03:18] Chong Seow Wei: your situation right now, your position for

[00:03:21] Mathew Leong: me, for me is that if you work for the best, you already learn your, your halfway of success. You know, so you already learn the, the good stuff, [00:03:30] the how, what it takes to become the best.

[00:03:32] Mathew Leong: Okay. So, uh, that's, that's helped you a lot in your career, not going to a restaurant that is, uh, uh, having a place. There's having a lot of surf sound and fun.

[00:03:42] Chong Seow Wei: It doesn't

[00:03:42] Mathew Leong: benefit you in the next 5, So you go to a place that you know you will suffer, but you will learn a lot. And that's why I always believe in the start of my early career.

[00:03:54] Chong Seow Wei: So you talk about suffering, but I also, I think the last time we spoke about you also said that you have a very strong competitive [00:04:00] streak, right? Yeah. Do you think that all chefs or maybe even any professional of your level who wants to achieve that kind of level of professionalism needs to be extremely competitive?

[00:04:11] Mathew Leong: I can't speak for the others, but for me, you know, a competition is healthy. Thank you. So, uh, it makes you, you force yourself to be better, uh, and, uh, I love to compete so much, you know, if one, like I say, you know, if I have a restaurant and somebody has a restaurant beside me or opposite me, you get the accolade, I was like, oh, you know what, [00:04:30] I'm going to beat you.

[00:04:30] Mathew Leong: So this is, uh, This is something that drives me every day, uh, to come to work, to, to chase for something and uh, and to, uh, be passionate about, about the craft.

[00:04:42] Chong Seow Wei: Okay, so now let's talk a little bit about the, the restaurant that you're currently at, right? When you were offered the job at Re-naa. You were, you had already been seeking a job for six months.

[00:04:55] Chong Seow Wei: What was going through your mind at that time? Maybe before you actually received the offer, were [00:05:00] you nervous? Were you like stressed out?

[00:05:02] Mathew Leong: No, they, you know, back then in 2016, Michelin was not in Singapore yet. So, uh, As a young chef, I was like, you know what, if I want to be the best, you know, I need to work overseas.

[00:05:13] Mathew Leong: You know, it's like Europe. Europe is where all, like France, the gastronomy is there, everything is there. And, uh, the Nordic region has always been the best chef in the world. With, uh, the food stall.

[00:05:23] Chong Seow Wei: Yeah, it's like the culinary Mecca.

[00:05:25] Mathew Leong: Exactly. So I was like, you know what, I'm gonna send, uh, CV, you know. [00:05:30] Uh, back then I was like, I'm gonna try my luck.

[00:05:32] Mathew Leong: So I, I flew to Germany. Norway, Sweden, you know, every different places and, and send out multiple CV and, uh, Re-naa actually offered me the job. For me, I, I didn't even think the second thought. I was like, when can I come? You know, uh, as soon as possible. When the visa is there, I pack my bag and we go with a very, uh, focused mindset to actually succeed in the, in overseas, actually.

[00:05:54] Mathew Leong: So I didn't think much. I just, I just go and we see what it takes from there.

[00:05:58] Chong Seow Wei: And before you applied to Renault, did you [00:06:00] know about the restaurant?

[00:06:01] Mathew Leong: Yes, I know, I know, because there's one or two Singaporeans who have worked there before, and then they came back, they were like, oh, it's a tough place to work, you know, and stuff like that.

[00:06:10] Mathew Leong: And I was like, ah, you know, fantastic, I'm going there. Tough is good for you. Exactly, because I think it's, if a chef don't teach you, or somebody don't, uh, is not willing to share their knowledge with you, or tell you that that's wrong, Then, then it's not the right place to do, you know, so for me as a young chef It's nice that [00:06:30] somebody tell me, hey Matt, this is wrong, you know And then you will be okay, you go back home You think the next day and then you come back stronger than ever.

[00:06:36] Mathew Leong: So I like people to actually be more open with things

[00:06:39] Chong Seow Wei: And when you packed up to go to Norway, or Stavanger in particular, which is where the restaurant is, you only had 500 in your bank account. Tell us about that, that experience.

[00:06:50] Mathew Leong: So when I went there, you know, I didn't think so much. I have, uh, savings, bought the ticket there.

[00:06:55] Mathew Leong: Um, pay a little bit of deposit over there. You know, I live with, uh, three, three [00:07:00] other people, which is they are, they are tattoo artists, you know, so.

[00:07:03] Chong Seow Wei: So different types of people, not even people working in the street. No, no, no, no. So

[00:07:06] Mathew Leong: they are tattoo artists. So every day they are going by season. So different people coming in and out of the apartment, you know.

[00:07:11] Mathew Leong: So I was like, but I don't really care back then because you are young, you know. But my main goal is to go to Norway. Work as hard as possible and, uh, and come back, um, stronger than ever. That's the only goal. So no party, no nothing. Every day, just go to work, come back home. That's it.

[00:07:28] Chong Seow Wei: Wow. And what was the [00:07:30] biggest lesson from that experience?

[00:07:32] Mathew Leong: I mean, discipline and focus. I think, uh, that, that really, uh, brings me a different person. When I went to Norway, being independent, uh, and for me, the most important to success is actually the focus.

[00:07:45] Chong Seow Wei: And Re-naa was your first culinary job overseas. Yes. Where did you start in the restaurant and how did you grow from there?

[00:07:52] Mathew Leong: So I actually worked for Re-naa for one year. Uh, so I, I started off, uh, in the fine dining restaurant in, I [00:08:00] think, the cold section. You know, I start slowly and then I move on to different section. And chef [Sven Erik] Renaa, the owner, the chef-owner of Re-naa has been, uh, He's like a respectful man for me and I really respect him a lot.

[00:08:13] Mathew Leong: And he actually gave me a lot of opportunity and that's how I grew in Scandinavia. What

[00:08:18] Chong Seow Wei: do you think was the best advice that he has ever given you? Or maybe the harshest advice that you still remember till today?

[00:08:26] Mathew Leong: To be honest, he, he, he didn't really, um, shout at me before [00:08:30] or scream at me before in, uh, in, in my whole season in, in Renault, but, uh, he always taught me the.

[00:08:38] Mathew Leong: The small little details that the normal chef don't think about. The last touch, the small details, the flavour, and all these things, and until today. Today he was like, Matt, you know, it's the taste, it's the flavour, you know. No point doing 20, 30 items on the plate. Two things on the plate, flavour comes first, always.

[00:08:56] Mathew Leong: So this is something that he always reminds me. Even when I'm going to [00:09:00] compete for the burger store, he is still, he is still emphasizing this. Don't put 20 flowers on the plate. It doesn't make sense, you know. Just go clean.

[00:09:07] Chong Seow Wei: Simple.

[00:09:07] Mathew Leong: Simple, but flavour and impactful.

[00:09:10] Chong Seow Wei: And that's what informs the Re-naa culinary philosophy right now also.

[00:09:14] Mathew Leong: Yes, exactly.

[00:09:14] Chong Seow Wei: It's always been like that actually, right?

[00:09:16] Mathew Leong: Yes. It's always been like that. And he's a fantastic chef and, uh. For me, he's one of the greatest chefs I've ever worked with.

[00:09:22] Chong Seow Wei: Oh, that's high praise. So what is his kind of role right now with you? So he's the owner and you're the executive chef.

[00:09:29] Chong Seow Wei: What's your [00:09:30] relationship when you're dining in the kitchen right now? So

[00:09:32] Mathew Leong: the thing is, uh, of course, uh, chef is always very involved in the menu and we have an R&D team, uh, Tony Mardin. He's, uh, he's working down there and we actually working together to, I run the operation every day, but when it comes to changing the dishes, Chefs from every level, you know, has, uh, Always, uh, have input and, uh, and create the dishes together with us and, uh, The three of us and then we will execute to the team and that's how we run the dining room.[00:10:00]

[00:10:00] Chong Seow Wei: So it's still a very tight ship. Yeah, very very much directly involved.

[00:10:03] Mathew Leong: Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:10:04] Chong Seow Wei: Okay, and now your restaurant recently received its third star. Yeah, congratulations on that.

[00:10:09] Mathew Leong: Thank you.

[00:10:10] Chong Seow Wei: But I must imagine that the pressure is quite immense for you to maintain this three stars, or even when you were at two stars, it was already quite intense and pressure.

[00:10:21] Mathew Leong: The thing is, the thing is, it's all about the team effort, you know, it's, uh, chef has, uh, run the restaurant for 15 years and now I'm doing [00:10:30] exactly chef as his right hand to run this restaurant together with him and, uh, It's all about the team effort, but I think about stress and everything, we just go along the way and we always need to improve ourself and, uh, and, uh, stick to the game.

[00:10:45] Chong Seow Wei: Is that how you usually deal with stress and pressure?

[00:10:47] Mathew Leong: No, I love it, you know. I love it.

[00:10:49] Chong Seow Wei: You love suffering, you love competition, and you love stress. I think

[00:10:54] Mathew Leong: if there's no stress, then there's no point, uh, doing this. You

[00:10:57] Chong Seow Wei: won't progress, right, if there's no stress? Yeah, you

[00:10:59] Mathew Leong: won't progress. [00:11:00] I like to keep my head running at all times and, uh, And the high pressure.

[00:11:05] Chong Seow Wei: So you're representing Singapore at the Bocuse d’Or for the second time. What are your feelings about that and how are you preparing for it?

[00:11:12] Mathew Leong: First of all, I'm always excited and this will be, uh, how would I say it? My final journey in the competition career. And I have a very strong team around me. The Bocuse d’Or is highlighting one person in the country.

[00:11:26] Mathew Leong: Uh, as me as a candidate, but for me it's all about the team effort. [00:11:30] Without the team, uh, you will never be successful. You will never make it, uh, to the podium. Because it, it takes, uh, like, I'm the driver on the Formula One car and the rest of them, they are all the, the crew member. So without them, it's impossible.

[00:11:43] Chong Seow Wei: And I heard that you actually recreated your kitchen to look like the Bocuse d’Or kitchen. Yup. Was that, was that intentional? Why did you do that?

[00:11:51] Mathew Leong: Uh, we need to cook so blindly on the day of the contest because five and a half hour is very tight to create the, uh Spectacular [00:12:00] platter and the plate, the theme on the plates.

[00:12:03] Mathew Leong: So in order to work actually smooth in the workflow in the kitchen, we need to make a replica of the actual Bocuse d’Or kitchen. So when we close our eyes, we know exactly where the spoon is, where the fork is, where is everything is. So we go by the milliseconds and we know exactly the specific timing.

[00:12:20] Mathew Leong: Wow, milliseconds. Yeah.

[00:12:22] Chong Seow Wei: That's insane. And you mentioned that you have quite some renown names in your team, right? Yeah, yeah. I

[00:12:28] Mathew Leong: mean, [00:12:30] the team Singapore has gathered all the best chefs in Singapore. We have chef Julien Royer, he's our coach for the burger stall. And chef Bruno Menard, he's the president. And chef Sebastien Lepinoy, chef Kirk Westaway, from Jaan.

[00:12:46] Mathew Leong: And all these people, they are all coming together to support me in the bookstore. So it's uh, It's an 18 now I can say

[00:12:53] Chong Seow Wei: It sounds like an 18. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah, and you also turn 30 and you've been a chef for nearly half your [00:13:00] life How do you feel about turning 30? Is there anything special that you're gonna do differently in your 30s or are you gonna continue even harder?

[00:13:07] Mathew Leong: I mean 30 years old is a new goal, you know, it's a new year. It's uh, uh I need to push myself harder So this is something, 30 years old, there's no pie. I don't believe in this birthday party and stuff like that. You know, for me, um spending time with the family and everything will be will be the best best gift for me.

[00:13:27] Mathew Leong: So And then you have a [00:13:30] future plan what you're going to do at 30 to 40 years old and this is what i'm looking for

[00:13:35] Chong Seow Wei: And also the last time we spoke you said that you wanted to start your own brand

[00:13:38] Mathew Leong: Yeah, you're

[00:13:39] Chong Seow Wei: already starting to start your own brand.

[00:13:41] Mathew Leong: I mean, uh, we have this the bookstore, you know We we have the logo there to actually do something to do promotion and stuff.

[00:13:48] Mathew Leong: Okay, but I think it's going well.

[00:13:52] Chong Seow Wei: You plan to open how many restaurants under this?

[00:13:54] Mathew Leong: I hopefully, Eventually

[00:13:55] Chong Seow Wei: this brand?

[00:13:56] Mathew Leong: Hopefully, hopefully, Things are going well and [00:14:00] uh, We can do something different. And, uh, open more restaurant, you know, and, uh, the highest restaurant with prestigious and casual dining and stuff like that.

[00:14:10] Mathew Leong: So, to show something different to the culinary industry and to be different.

[00:14:17] Chong Seow Wei: I think your goal was like, what, 20 restaurants? That's

[00:14:21] Mathew Leong: always my childhood dream, you know. It's always, I don't know why it came out with 20, but it's always my childhood dream. I'm going to open 20 restaurants. When I was like 16 [00:14:30] 20 restaurants in the world one day.

[00:14:31] Mathew Leong: Just

[00:14:31] Chong Seow Wei: a random number, right? 20

[00:14:33] Mathew Leong: restaurants. My dad was like, yeah, don't be too ambitious. You know what, I'm going to make it. I like it, you know, when he provokes me, you know. I love it.

[00:14:40] Chong Seow Wei: So you like that your dad provokes you actually, so you are going to hopefully aim for that 20 restaurants. And you also said that you hopefully want to slow down by the time you turn 45.

[00:14:51] Mathew Leong: That's always been a dream, but the people around me, even my wife, don't believe it, you know. I mean, uh, at certain point of time, [00:15:00] certain point of time, uh, at certain age, I think it's time to, you need to let go a little bit to help the younger generation to move forward. And that's how the world evolved.

[00:15:08] Chong Seow Wei: So,

[00:15:08] Mathew Leong: uh, certain, certain, let's see, maybe, uh, maybe when I turn 50, 60, you know, I cannot be standing in the kitchen like I'm now 30 years old, you know, in the kitchen, but then it's time for that, let the young generation go up and teach them and, uh, show them the way to succeed. For me, it's most important is to see people succeed.

[00:15:28] Mathew Leong: I love to see success. [00:15:30] I love it. I don't like this character of being, uh, only I'm the king of the mountain. No. It needs to, I want more people to go, you know, to, to grow as a, as in whatever profession.

[00:15:43] Chong Seow Wei: Do you think you will ever retire from this job then? It doesn't sound like you will.

[00:15:47] Mathew Leong: Uh.

[00:15:48] Chong Seow Wei: Maybe when you're 80, you're still in the, in the kitchen.

[00:15:51] Chong Seow Wei: Telling kind of advising your next generation. Oh, this is how you should do it.

[00:15:55] Mathew Leong: I think, I think, I think, yes, I don't think I will retire fully, [00:16:00] but, uh, but I think I will definitely let go a little bit. Depends on my wife. Depends on your

[00:16:06] Chong Seow Wei: wife? Yeah. I understand that your wife actually schedules your, your daily.

[00:16:10] Chong Seow Wei: Yeah,

[00:16:10] Mathew Leong: my, my wife schedules, uh, my, my daily, uh, schedule every day. Every day, even when back then she was not in Norway and she was in Singapore, she still scheduled my day. What hour, what hour, you need to go to this restaurant, what hour, what hour, what hour. Yeah, she's scheduling every single thing. So, when I come back to [00:16:30] Singapore every time to do the promotion, four hands dinner, she has a hourly schedule for me to make sure I have a shot.

[00:16:37] Mathew Leong: She's

[00:16:37] Chong Seow Wei: tough. She's also very tough. She's like your manager.

[00:16:40] Mathew Leong: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, you know, as a guy, you know, I like to test the system, you know. We always, uh, and then she will tell you, hey, this is the way, and I like it.

[00:16:49] Chong Seow Wei: Okay. And I have a personal question. Mm-hmm . So related to your wife, what do you think your wife will say when it comes to being married to a chef?[00:17:00]

[00:17:00] Mathew Leong: My wife. Do you think, do you

[00:17:01] Chong Seow Wei: think a chef is very difficult because of your, your schedule, right? You work very long hours? Yeah. What do you think she would say,

[00:17:08] Mathew Leong: you know, before we got together, I really want her, you know, you know, you, you need to test a little bit and then, and, uh, test it on, test me out.

[00:17:15] Mathew Leong: Yeah. She already understand it. She already understand it, but, uh. Time is always the challenge for me. For me, the most difficult challenge is time. To spend time with the family. And, uh, I'm trying to balance this well, but it can be [00:17:30] better, it can be better. But, you know, people say you marry a chef or you can stay at home, they cook for you and stuff like that.

[00:17:36] Mathew Leong: Trust me, I don't cook at home.

[00:17:38] Chong Seow Wei: But she cooks

[00:17:39] Mathew Leong: at home? Uh, she, she cooks at home, she cooks at home. Because I don't eat the whole day normally, so whenever I come back she will cook some, uh, in Norway she will actually brew some my favourite ABC soup or something, you know, and all this stuff. So when I come home we will have dinner together, uh, supper.

[00:17:54] Mathew Leong: We call it supper, but that's dinner for me. And, uh, and spend quality time together before we go to bed [00:18:00] and sleep. So, now I told her, you know what, every Sunday I'm gonna cook. So. So this is how you compensate back. You know, it's Sunday, it's a family day. We're gonna, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna cook and Yeah, we try to compensate each other and give a good balance.

[00:18:16] Chong Seow Wei: That sounds really nice. I mean like weekends are supposed to be relaxing, your after work hours supposed to be relaxing for you, right? So you don't cook. She takes over, she cooks your favourite dish.

[00:18:25] Mathew Leong: Yeah, but then now I have an itchy mouth, I say someday I'm going to cook it, so I have to do it.

[00:18:29] Chong Seow Wei: So, [00:18:30] okay.

[00:18:31] Chong Seow Wei: So my final question for you, so now that you have been a chef for, as I mentioned, nearly half your life, what would you say to your younger self now that, based on what you know now?

[00:18:43] Mathew Leong: Uh,

[00:18:44] Chong Seow Wei: One piece of advice.

[00:18:47] Mathew Leong: Uh, no, no. No

[00:18:49] Chong Seow Wei: advice? You

[00:18:50] Mathew Leong: were happy,

[00:18:50] Chong Seow Wei: kind of satisfied with, with how you have grown as a athlete?

[00:18:54] Mathew Leong: Because for me, maybe the, when I was younger, I need to have more focus and discipline because you know, [00:19:00] uh, for me, I, I, like I said before, you know, to, to, to succeed and to do something great, you need to have the focus, the discipline, and then you need to have consistency. You know, when you're younger, you don't have so much consistency and the focus, you know, you sway, you start to sway a little bit around.

[00:19:15] Mathew Leong: But, uh, if I could tell my younger self, I would be more The focus and then I will have more than what I have today.

[00:19:23] Chong Seow Wei: Because

[00:19:24] Mathew Leong: I will never satisfied, you know, every day I'm still asking my wife, have I done enough, uh, enough, [00:19:30] uh, in my career or enough in, in, in what I'm doing now. And my wife will say, can you relax and just chill?

[00:19:36] Mathew Leong: Because every month, one time, definitely, or almost every week I, I, I question myself, you know, uh, with this thing. So, um, this is what I would tell my younger self and go over, work as hard as possible as well. And, uh, And make it in a big way.

[00:19:52] Chong Seow Wei: so much, Mathew. Thanks for joining us. very much.

[00:19:54] Mathew Leong: It

[00:19:55] Chong Seow Wei: was a great interview.

[00:19:56] Chong Seow Wei: That's it for yet another episode of Crazy Smart [00:20:00] Asia. I hope you've enjoyed this episode. Don't forget to follow us wherever you're listening to this. Crazy Smart Asia is produced by Josie Colter and edited, mixed and mastered by Ben Beheshty. Gen.T’s digital editor is Valerie Lim. Crazy Smart Asia is hosted by me, Chong Seow Wei.

[00:20:18] Chong Seow Wei: In the meantime, do remember,

[00:20:20] Mathew Leong: when you win something, you always want to do it more.

[00:20:23] Chong Seow Wei: See you next [00:20:30] week!

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